Young men are struggling. What does this mean for young women?

Young men in the US are struggling. There's no shortage of statistics – about academic achievement, income levels, loneliness, even lack of sex – which indicate that the boys are not alright. Compared to young women, boys are getting left behind.

But even having the conversation about how to tackle the young man crisis is complicated, and can leave girls feeling, well, put out. After all, girls and women have had centuries of inbuilt disadvantages to contend with, don't they finally deserve a moment to shine?

Add in the bad actors online, those who try to spin the plight of struggling young men into a zero-sum rallying cry for vengeance against women, and the conversation becomes trickier still.

One person trying to bring the discussion into a more positive space, for young men and women alike, is Scott Galloway, a professor at New York University who's become a media powerhouse in recent years. He hosts several podcasts – including Lost Boys, which debuts in May. He's now counseling the Democratic Party on messaging around boys and men. And he has a new book coming out this autumn, titled Notes on Being a Man. 

I wanted to talk to Scott about what's going on with young men today and how all of this affects the lives of young women.

We had a really thought-provoking conversation. You can watch (or read) more of it below.

Below is an excerpt from our conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity.

Katty Kay: Set out the landscape for me on why you're looking at men, what the crisis is as you see it in the mental and physical health of young men. 

Scott Galloway: Look, the data's overwhelming: Four times as likely to kill themselves. Three times as likely to be addicted, 12 times as likely to be incarcerated. Record levels of depression. We're raising the most obese, anxious and depressed generation in history. For the first time, a 30-year-old isn't doing as well as his or her parents were at 30. Women are making more money in urban centres under the age of 30 than men. And by the way, I think that's a wonderful thing. I think that's a sign of victory and [there's] also more women-owned single homes than men. I don't think we should do anything to get in the way of that.

While loneliness is an issue for both genders, it seems to be especially hard, or a lack of a romantic relationship seems to be especially damaging, for a young man. Women tend to channel some of that romantic energy if they don't have it into their friendships and into the professional career, whereas men tend to, young men tend to channel it into things like video games or porn – or begin sequestering from society. So, we just have a group of emotionally and economically unviable young men. 

And just on a personal level, I sort of relate to it because I was one of those men. And had it not been for just some of the incredible offerings of America, access to affordable higher education. And I've been very open about this, my mother had access to family planning. My mother got pregnant at 47, and had we not had access to family planning and my mum had been forced to carry a baby to term, I would have not gone to college. I would have done what I should have done. I was the only man of the house.

KK: I want to look at this from the point of view of what this means for girls: A third of American women now earn more than their partners. But according to my research, and I've spent quite a lot of time writing books about women and girls, in couples where the wife earns more than the husband, they will often lie about it in the US census data to make it look like the man earns more than the wife. So, what does it mean for couples navigating a situation where women are doing better, earning more, getting better educated while men are falling behind?

SG: Men have not kept pace in terms of picking up the slack. If they're not adding as much economically, are they picking up the slack emotionally or logistically or domestically around the house? And the reality is, the man's contribution to the relationship, in general, has not kept pace with the woman's ascent and increased contribution. So, basically, women are just sort of doing the math and saying, I'm not getting as much out of this. So, I'm opting out. Two-thirds of women under the age of 30 has a boyfriend. One-in-three men has a relationship. Women are dating older because they want more economically and emotionally viable men.

KK: Part of me gets very depressed by this conversation – 

SG: Tell me about it! 

KK: Does this just not work, then? Is it zero-sum that if women are going to progress financially and educationally, somehow it's not going to work between men and women?

SG: I think there are solutions. I think we should do nothing to get in the way of women being financially independent. I think it's wonderful and women, at the end of the day, should not have to lower their standards. They should be able to reap the rewards of their hard-fought victories, the fact that they work harder, they have better executive function, they're doing well in school, they're footing their skills to an information age economy. Good for them. Go girl. Way to go, sister. Do nothing to get in the way of that.

At the same time, I do think there's a series of programs that would level up young people in general that would create more economic viability such that if two people get together, they're economically viable. And right now, that's not the case. 

I think if we raise minimum wage to $25 an hour such that in an economy where unemployment is at historic lows, such that people could just make more money. Mandatory national service such that we could demonstrate heroism and more than anything, I think men and young people need more third places: religious institutions, nonprofit, more freshmen seats, vocational programming, mandatory national service.

Let me throw out a very provocative idea: I think young people need to drink more. There is an anti-alcohol movement that has gotten a lot of purchase. Forty per cent of all nightclubs in London have closed down, because young people don't have money and there's an anti-alcohol movement. I think the risk to the 25-year-old liver of alcohol is dwarfed by the risk of anxiety and social isolation. My advice to young people – and I'm being somewhat humorous here – is to go out, get out of the house more and drink more and make a series of bad decisions that might pay off.

KK: One of the things that we've talked about and written about in our research was this notion of kind of broadening the concept of care and that obviously women are still doing the majority of the housework and the chores and the caregiving for both kids and for elders.

I feel like you are looking at something similar, but in a slightly different way, which is redefining almost the concept of being a provider and a protector. Talk a bit about those two words, because you've done it in a way that I think we're actually getting you and I at something similar, which is understanding what it means to be a provider and a protector in a slightly different way from the traditional words which might be a little off-putting to some women. 

SG: I'm trying to figure out a way to thread the needle here. I think everybody needs a code to help them guide them through the thousands of decisions that they make every day professionally and personally. Some people get their code from their church, from their family, from their work, from the military. And I'd like to think that young men, if they're so inclined, could really lean into this notion of masculinity. But we need to define it aspirationally. And I think of it as three very basic pillars: provider, protector and procreator.

Provider: I think every man at the outset of his career in a capitalist society should assume or aim to take economic responsibility for his household. And by the way sometimes that means realising your partner is better at this whole money thing and being more supportive of her career. When my partner and I had kids, she was working at Goldman Sachs making a lot more money than me. So, I stepped up. I was home for bath time. I organised the house, because I realised how important economic responsibility was for our house.

KK: Did you find that emasculating in any way? Did any part of you struggle with the role of being the sort of primary provider?

SG: A little bit, and also we can talk about this, but the hard reality is and I don't think we want to admit this: I think women are less sexually attracted to men when they lose their economic viability.

Two: protector. I think your default mechanism as a man should be a protector. Men need to be strong. They need to be protectors. Think about the jobs that you think of as being masculine: firemen, cop, military. What do they do? They protect. And it's not only just physical. It breaks my heart that women in New York say they don't feel safe on the subway or that if they see a group of men coming down the sidewalk, they cross the street. We have to train our boys from an early age –

KK: Well, that is physical. I mean that is what we're afraid of. 

SG: 100%, but I think it's more than that. I think being a man is when people are gossiping and criticising other people behind their back, your default mechanism as a man is you defend that person. 

You may not agree with the transgender community. You may not think we need a law forcing a third bathroom for corporations. But when you see a community being demonised, your default as a man is to defend, to protect. That's what we do. We protect. And then let me go to the third thing, procreator. I think sexual desire, want, wanting to find a mate, I think if channeled correctly, that can be a fantastic motivator and means for being a better man. 

I mean, what is this all for? We talk about AI, we talk about GDP, we talk about income inequality. The whole point of all of this is so you can establish deep and meaningful relationships. And most people would say the deepest and most meaningful relationships they have are the relationships that have been fostered by finding someone to mate with and their kids. I mean, I'll ask you, what is the most rewarding thing in your life? 

KK: Hands down, having four children. Not even a question. It's my relationship with my husband and the four children that we have. 

SG: Sixty per cent of 30 year olds had a kid in their house 40 years ago. Now, it's 27%. Is it because they've decided they don't want a family or maybe they can't afford it? Or maybe the dynamics of online dating? And I want to be clear, I love the fact that women are killing it. And I'm not asking women to lower their standards. I'm asking us to raise the viability to level up all young people. 

KK: Scott, I appreciate the fact that you're tackling stuff that is awkward, both for men and for women to talk about. But there are bad actors online who are taking some of this disconnect between the achievement levels of young men and young women and turning it into a victim story and turning it into a vengeance story. 

A lot of my women friends, and particularly younger women, have said to me in recent months, 'God, you know, we feel like we had 2,000 years of disadvantage inbuilt. We were finally getting ahead and now we're being put back in a box again.' How do you navigate that?

SG: Well, first off is to acknowledge that the gag reflex is understandable and natural and maybe even makes sense, because from 1945 to, call it 2005, America registered unbelievable prosperity and economic growth. And all of that prosperity was crammed into a third of the population, specifically white dudes born heterosexual. So, my generation just registered massively unfair prosperity. I always acknowledge the majority of my success is not my fault. So, it's understandable that people say, OK, you've got a 3,000-year head start, and now your hair's on fire when men aren't doing well.

But what I would urge is the following: empathy is not a zero-sum game. If you go into a morgue, and there's five people who died by suicide, four are men. And you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men? Women. Our country and our women are not going to continue to flourish unless we have more viable men.

And also just to recognise a 19-year-old male, maybe his mother's addicted to opiates, his father's incarcerated, has had a lot of middle class on-ramps, sequestered, is really struggling, has big tech companies trying to get him to engage in porn, gambling, he's got a much more risk-aggressive brain. We can have empathy for these people. Civil rights didn't hurt white people. Gay marriage didn't hurt heteronormative marriage. Our young men are struggling.

When I had this conversation five years ago, I was called Andrew Tate with a graduate degree. I was called a misogynist. And the conversation has become so much more productive, because the people who are leading the conversation now are mothers. And what I tell young men when I'm coaching is the way you know you have failed as a man is when you start blaming other people. You start blaming women for your lack of sexual prospects and you start blaming immigrants for your economic problems. That means you have jumped the shark and you really have lost the script.

So, there is an aspirational form of masculinity and I'd like to think it'll be a fantastic code for young men. But it all starts with empathy. This is not a zero-sum game. Women still face huge challenges, but we can also acknowledge our young men are struggling and they need our help.

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